Miles around X century

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Rodoric

Miles around X century

Post by Rodoric »

Hello to everybody
I'm french and i'm sorry but i'm not able to speak your language
Anyhow i'm interesting about information , pictures , sources on Miles (Carolingian tpye or salve type )in Bohemia (east part of holy empire) in 850-950.
I would like to improve my actual equipment : have a look on my picture.
Thank you in advance
military equipment miles X century
Image
and civil
Image

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Kain
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Post by Kain »

Hi, I repaired the pictures, with(out) your permition:-)
We are interested in Greatmoravians of the same period, so we are your enemy :), nevertheless I will try to help. Are you interested more in archaelogical founds of carolinian objects in ČR ore moreover in written informations, mostly about wars against Franks?

Svatopluk vyslal tajně početné vojsko a přepadl Bavory, kteří byli zanecháni na břehu řeky Dunaje ke střežení lodí. Jedny pobil, druhé dal utopit v řece, jiné pak odvedl jako zajatce.

Pravoslav, Orcae Ita

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Kain
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Post by Kain »

But anyway - what is that armor and helmet, please? Is it made as a reconstruction of some founds in France? Or pictures?

Svatopluk vyslal tajně početné vojsko a přepadl Bavory, kteří byli zanecháni na břehu řeky Dunaje ke střežení lodí. Jedny pobil, druhé dal utopit v řece, jiné pak odvedl jako zajatce.

Pravoslav, Orcae Ita

Rodoric

Post by Rodoric »

Kain wrote:But anyway - what is that armor and helmet, please? Is it made as a reconstruction of some founds in France? Or pictures?
The helmet is a Sint Venceslas type , X century (so type found in your area)
The armor is a lamellar not used in France, but use in east Europe , Byzantine part too .
The sword is a Frank/carolingian type found in actual slovakia.

Rodoric

Post by Rodoric »

Kain wrote:Hi, I repaired the pictures, with(out) your permition:-)
We are interested in Greatmoravians of the same period, so we are your enemy :), nevertheless I will try to help. Are you interested more in archaelogical founds of carolinian objects in ČR ore moreover in written informations, mostly about wars against Franks?
welcome friend ennemy
i'm interesting by archeological found , sources (miniatures...) re enactement works too and some written. it is an interesting area where you have a lot of influence : Frank/carolingian with Othonic empire, Bohemian (influence of Franks) , slave , north and east of Europe.

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Post by Kain »

Helmet and armour - I thought so :)
Our web is in construction, but send me an e-mail, I will send you back some pictures of my equipment, but from home (and you are right, for example my sword is supposed to be carolinian...)

Svatopluk vyslal tajně početné vojsko a přepadl Bavory, kteří byli zanecháni na břehu řeky Dunaje ke střežení lodí. Jedny pobil, druhé dal utopit v řece, jiné pak odvedl jako zajatce.

Pravoslav, Orcae Ita

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Post by Boza »

Hi Rodoric,
actually I'm interested in reconstructing militus of late-Carolignian period, I'm on start yet with only scale armour and sword ready; crested helmet, round shield and long lance is still pending.

Check the picture for my scale armour (please ignore the displayed shield and sword, the event where shot was taken was dated differently):
Image

and a sword (Great Moravia period, grave No. 425, Mikulčice-Valy):
Image
Last edited by Boza on Thu 30. Aug, 2007 20:54, edited 1 time in total.
A když už byl založen řečený hrad Kamenec, kníže Břetislav, než odtud odjel, pojav stranou Mutinu...

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Post by Boza »

Anyway, it looks your interest is quite wide, feel free to browse all the topics under section Raný středověk (Early Medieval), if you'll need translation I can help as much as I can.
A když už byl založen řečený hrad Kamenec, kníže Břetislav, než odtud odjel, pojav stranou Mutinu...

Rodoric

Post by Rodoric »

Boza wrote:Anyway, it looks your interest is quite wide, feel free to browse all the topics under section Raný středověk (Early Medieval), if you'll need translation I can help as much as I can.
Thank you Boza
your scale amour is very well recreated
if i need translation i will ask you
please find more details about me equipemt
Image

Image

Rodoric

Post by Rodoric »

my miles equipment with hauberk under the lamellar .

Image

Image

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Kain
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Post by Kain »

Are you sure with the lamellar armour? I know, that it is an analogy to eastern types, but we have a lot of frankish illuminations and nothing seems to be lamellar armour, IMHO :(

Svatopluk vyslal tajně početné vojsko a přepadl Bavory, kteří byli zanecháni na břehu řeky Dunaje ke střežení lodí. Jedny pobil, druhé dal utopit v řece, jiné pak odvedl jako zajatce.

Pravoslav, Orcae Ita

Rodoric

Post by Rodoric »

what i'm sure is that in France the lamellar was not used
The lamellar was use by the byzantine empire since the beginning , and re used by Norman/french (from normandy) in Sicily after mercenary employement within the Byzantine empire
In the eastern part of europe this Lamellar was also used (Rus , influence of Byzantine ).
Your area is a border area between the Frank / slavic country / potential mercenary employement by Byzantine empire.
In France some illustration showed , scale type armor : pure scale ? lamellar ? chain mail also? broigne with metal ''lamell''.
It is the period were the steel is not produced in massive quantity , and chain mail even in France for that period is not common : only with important lord...(same for Norman period with William that invaded england)

It is why i would like ti share with you which information you have on armor equipment in your area between 850-950
For your information where was used the lamellar armor in east of Europe (period 850-950)

thank you

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Post by Kain »

I din not replied your mail, becouse the answer can be done even here (and was partially done). Yes, we know, that lamellar armour is an eastern pattern, usually. But Great Moravia was in contact, we have found one fragment, that can be part of lamellar armour, but it is not sure. Look to this discussion, this discussion, there is a lot of pictures here.
So we only suppose use of lamellar armor as an import to great moravia, so if, then seldom. What was found are chain mails, in Mikulčice and Staré Město, for example, or St. Wenceslass chain mail. Then fragments of iron, supposed to be scales, but not sure again. It can be an iport from Franks or gained during wars...

Svatopluk vyslal tajně početné vojsko a přepadl Bavory, kteří byli zanecháni na břehu řeky Dunaje ke střežení lodí. Jedny pobil, druhé dal utopit v řece, jiné pak odvedl jako zajatce.

Pravoslav, Orcae Ita

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